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Ok so because windows 95 seems to be too common list of words for the search I didnt really know where to start, but this was a bit of a project I am looking into that I guess I wanted to see whether people thought it might actually work or not. Where I work we have a front end terminal for the building management system that controls the A/C system of the building. It was installed in 1999 and has been running 24/7 ever since, the computer itself is a compaq presario with like 64mb of ram and windows 95, the computer has USB but not USB drivers yet and one of our main concerns is if the system goes down it may go down for good and that would become hellishly expensive. So I was chatting to the engineer today who services the BMS and we discussed how the particular software will only run on windows 95 which puts us (and many other companies) in a bit of a situation if it ever failed in so far as the large outlay for replacement equipment beyond just a PC. Having seen a few mentions of how the raspberry pi and also the raspberry pi2 can run windows 95 I thought hmmm maybe we have a replacement solution, but I guess I wondered on the limitations of this virtual machine?
So the BMS systems communicate to the PC front end terminal via a Serial port on the back of the PC, I wondered with the Pi and emulation if this might be achievable? I was thinking the Pi has built in Serial and you can get a serial to USB, but wondered if in win95 emulation if the emulated PC would see either of these as a valid port?
I was thinking the Pi seems a lovely little lightweight replacement solution to effectively replacing a full blown PC that could be an interface between person and BMS working with its original software. Apparently this old BMS and windows 95 problem is an issue the company have with many sites so I thought I know a maybe solution, just need some peeps help to fill in some gaps What are your thoughts? I guess there are a few things here, a PC of any sort is going to cost some Money, a Pi is super cheap. Then on the software side, while I understand vm in windows would be easier, its actually the IT support element it would get complicated at my company, the Pi Solution I could support, which for the amount of use it gets wouldnt be a problem. I also figured power consumption is a big one, the Pi uses next to nothing for a terminal which gets used for maybe 20-30 minutes a week total. I thought this might be a nifty little solution, which if it implemented well, was such a cheap idea that it might be able to be implemented for other clients of this same BMS system.
Newer versions of the software for newer OS's are available but silly expensive. I guess alot of this is cost driven, one reason the Pi works so well. May I ask which system Bugsy? Some variety of Sauter. If it's Trend 945 then you might find it worth your while looking at although you would still need to re-engineer all of your graphics pages.
Last time I checked (and it was a few years ago) a Trend 963 licence was about £7000, then add engineering time (which adds up quickly for a large site where there are lots of graphic pages). Trend 945 (and other BMS systems as well) can be very particular about running on emulations, I very much doubt that a Pi2 will be able to work.
There was also a tendency at that time to require a hardware dongle, without which the software would not run. IIRC Trend 945 requires one. (could be mounted to a serial port, the parallel port or internally within the PC case). Bugsymalone 666, Certainly there is more than the cost of the raw hardware to take into account when assessing the feasibility of any project. Let's see what you have there: The Pi is super cheap.
However I would suggest that by the time you are setup with a decent case power supply and whatever else you need the system cost is not that different. Also it's not a big deal in terms of all the work you will do developing the solution and installing it. You are not looking at huge quantities I guess.
I'm not sure why support issues will be any different with Linux or Windows, Pi or other board. Somebody has to develop the thing and somebody has to roll it out and support it whatever you do.
I will suggest power consumption difference are irrelevant. An Intel NUC or whatever will run off 3 or 4 watts. This is a buildings A/C system we are talking about.
Saving a watt or two is lost in the noise. Your major cost is in development, installation and support. Saving a few bucks on hardware won't help noticeably. Me, I'd be trying out an industrial Intel NUC box, the low power Atom based ones are only a few hundred bucks including case, PSU, the works. I'd go for a Linux install, Ubuntu say, and Virtual Box. Of course there is an other approach to this issue: Sniff the serial line protocol and see if you can work out how it works. Then create your own code in Python or whatever.
Wow, someone missed a few Windows updates/development here I think the simplest solution is to buy a replacement PC with a serial port, a cheap refurbished one will do (less than 100 euros). Install all the necessary software on it and when the time comes, all you need to do is switch the boxes and reconnect the cables. It would be a big help if the original software installation disks are still around (Windows 95 and the BMS software), otherwise a backup or an image of the current harddisk are the way to go. Windows 95 might be obsolete, but for a stand alone PC it's not a problem.
Just don't connect it to the internet. A Pi would be a good choice for this type of application, cheap and low energy consumption, but I am not sure about it running Windows 95 in a emulation or something like that. A Pi running Raspbian or Windows 10 IoT sounds a lot more reliable. Heater wrote:Yeah, And all those people adopting Windows 10 IoT and whatever closed source solutions get sold to them to run on it will be in the same boat as the thousands of people and companies, like our opening poster, who fell for it back in the Win95 days. There are still a billion systems that require MSDOS or Win 3.1 or XP etc etc. It's a pain all over the world. It makes no sense to me to repeat the mistakes of history by adopting Win IoT on the Pi or closed source solutions in general.
Using W95 in an Emulator is no better than using W10 IoT Surely the BMS is just controlling Sensors so a Linux Solution would be a better fit when using a RPi. Buja wrote:Wow, someone missed a few Windows updates/development here I think the simplest solution is to buy a replacement PC with a serial port, a cheap refurbished one will do (less than 100 euros). Install all the necessary software on it and when the time comes, all you need to do is switch the boxes and reconnect the cables. It would be a big help if the original software installation disks are still around (Windows 95 and the BMS software), otherwise a backup or an image of the current harddisk are the way to go. Windows 95 might be obsolete, but for a stand alone PC it's not a problem. Just don't connect it to the internet.
A Pi would be a good choice for this type of application, cheap and low energy consumption, but I am not sure about it running Windows 95 in a emulation or something like that. A Pi running Raspbian or Windows 10 IoT sounds a lot more reliable. I would agree with this but I wonder if that A680 card is going to be a problem.
I'm guessing that you have a hardwired dongle attached to the parallel port? Heater wrote:Yeah, And all those people adopting Windows 10 IoT and whatever closed source solutions get sold to them to run on it will be in the same boat as the thousands of people and companies, like our opening poster, who fell for it back in the Win95 days. There are still a billion systems that require MSDOS or Win 3.1 or XP etc etc. It's a pain all over the world. It makes no sense to me to repeat the mistakes of history by adopting Win IoT on the Pi or closed source solutions in general. I agree, but the operating system is not the issue here.
The issue is the closed source application that ties Bugsy to an obsolete operating system. If the application was open source, porting it to the Pi or any other computer and operating system would not be a problem, just someone spending some hours. Buja wrote:Wow, someone missed a few Windows updates/development here I think the simplest solution is to buy a replacement PC with a serial port, a cheap refurbished one will do (less than 100 euros). Install all the necessary software on it and when the time comes, all you need to do is switch the boxes and reconnect the cables.
It would be a big help if the original software installation disks are still around (Windows 95 and the BMS software), otherwise a backup or an image of the current harddisk are the way to go. Windows 95 might be obsolete, but for a stand alone PC it's not a problem. Just don't connect it to the internet. A Pi would be a good choice for this type of application, cheap and low energy consumption, but I am not sure about it running Windows 95 in a emulation or something like that. A Pi running Raspbian or Windows 10 IoT sounds a lot more reliable. I would agree with this but I wonder if that A680 card is going to be a problem.
I'm guessing that you have a hardwired dongle attached to the parallel port? Thats not exactly what the machine has but it could well explain the full length centronics parallel cable attached to the machine (the type that screws into the back of the machine and you need a screwdriver to take it off).
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While I agree with some of the solutions, due to our purchasing/IT policy buying a PC would mean ordering an asset, which gets built with Windows 7, then particular software thats installed has to be approved and so on. The Pi isnt classed as that sort of equipment. If I was at home then I probably just would find another PC run linux and a VM client as per the suggestions. I'm thinking for the parallel port, I am sure I have seen USB to Parallel adaptors similar to the serial ones. So 2 USB adaptors to get the ports, but thats part of the question of will it work. Its just unfortunate that its crazy expensive when Sauter are involved! Bugsymalone 666 wrote: Thats not exactly what the machine has but it could well explain the full length centronics parallel cable attached to the machine (the type that screws into the back of the machine and you need a screwdriver to take it off).
I'm thinking for the parallel port, I am sure I have seen USB to Parallel adaptors similar to the serial ones. So 2 USB adaptors to get the ports, but thats part of the question of will it work. In a previous universe, I implemented software copy protection based on various dongles.
I would be surprised if Windows, emulated in a Pi with a USB to parallel converter, will be able to see and read the dongle well enough to enable the Win program to run (but I may be wrong). Although the security offered is not absolute, protection schemes were often based on custom port drivers, and a well designed and implemented scheme will still be good enough to be economically unhackable. (It's a different matter in a development environment running debug builds, as I found out when a colleagued hacked one of my schemes in a few minutes.) So if you try this route, just hope that the protection scheme in your program is not well designed and implemented. Even if you have to fight the procurement trolls, consider the cost of your time trying to get it all running on a Pi compared to the cost savings of Pi hardware - you can't spend long on such a project before the slightly more expensive PC looks cost effective. I trust you have tested backups of your current system in multiple formats.
Heater wrote: You are the reason many useful systems become very expensive to replace long after the company who created them has disappeared and the hardware those systems run on is history. In the interests of accuracy, at least one of the two companies concerned is still in business. The protection applied to servicing (configuration) tools, and prevented service engineers stealing the configuration programs to set up independent companies to use the original company's IP to compete against it. Maybe that's why they have survived. I don't hate anyone. BMS is a niche market that has kept me employed for quite a while now, too much electrical work for most programmers but too much programming for most electricians.
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BMS Head end PC's generally don't have to do any of the computational work, most of them merely run supervisor software that receives alarms and allows remote monitoring of the plant. Because all of the programming has been done on the controllers the Supervisor only needs to know how to talk to the controllers and how to display the information that comes back. Sometimes this will be a propriety closed protocol, othertimes an open protocol (e.g.
BACNET, MODBUS or Lonworks) With a closed protocol network the manufacturers have been known to change their protocols, so that newer supervisors cannot communicate with older controllers: 'Sorry, you'll have to upgrade.' Even with open protocol networks there is a financial burden to upgrading beyond the cost of the supervisor software, Graphical engineering. Lets imagine a smallish building: 2 Boilers, 4 associated pumps, 1 Pressurisation Unit 2 Chillers (air cooled), 4 associated pumps, 1 Pressurisation Unit 2 Air Handling Units 50 Fan Coil Units 1 Apps room with leak detection, and a split unit 1 water tank room, 1 Sprinkler tank room.
This would be about 10 graphical pages including a basic menu structure (each FCU would have it's own page but they would use a template rather than individual pages) and might take 2-3 days of engineering time to set-up. BMS Companies regularly charge about £600+ / day (I wish that they paid us that much, but it's what they charge) so they might charge £2000 for the graphical works in addition to the costs of changing the computer (£1000) and buying a software license (£7000) for whichever supervisor software they use. With a large building the engineering costs for changing the graphics far outweighs the cost of the software license and PC replacement.
FAQ - Actual Installer Actual Installer FAQ Welcome to the Actual Installer FAQ. Here you will find answers to frequently asked questions about. If you are unable to find the information you are looking for here, please feel free to. Didn't find an answer to your question? Try to find it in our. How to bypass the warning 'Unknown Publisher' when executing a setup file? To change the security warning ' when launching your setup program, you need to digitally sign the setup file with your code signing certificate.
If you don't have this certificate, you can get it from, a Comodo Strategic Partner. Only for Actual Installer customers there is a 15% discount: please use the coupon code CPNACTUAL If you have the certificate, you can sign your setup files using. How to set the Full Control security permissions to the folder that was created with the installer?
Add the following on the System Commands page: File: cacls.exe Parameters: ' /e /t /c /g Users:f Launch on OS: All Show: Normal Timing: After Installation Wait: No How to launch a file as administrator / how to add a flag 'Run this program as an administrator'? If you want to launch a file as admin during the installation, then use the page. There is an option 'Run as admin' for the command. If you want to make a file to be launched as administrator outside the installation (add a flag 'Run this program as an administrator' to the file compatibility settings), then you need to add a special registry value on the System Registry page. How to launch my program automatically when Windows starts? There are two ways to auto start the program every time when Windows starts: 1st way: Create a shortcut (page Installation Shortcuts) to the file (to be launched) in the Autostart menu (Shortcut Location: ). 2nd way: Add the following Registry value on the System Registry page: Registry Key: HKEYCURRENTUSER Software Microsoft Windows CurrentVersion Run Name Value: Type Value: REGSZ Value Data: 'select the file to launch' How to create a distribution / autorun CD or DVD?
AutoRun runs a program automatically when a CD or DVD is inserted into a Windows-based system. To create an AutoRun for your program, select 'Create CD/DVD Autorun' from the 'Tools' menu. The 'AUTORUN.INF' file will be create in the same folder as setup file.
Write these two files ('Setup.exe' and 'AUTORUN.INF') in the root directory of a CD or DVD. How to create an URL shortcut on the Desktop? Go to the Installation Shortcuts page, click the Add button and type the following: Target File: Shortcut Destination: Icon File (optional): Click Browse button and select an icon file (extensions:.ico OR.exe) How to install and register a font? On the Files and Folders page click Add Files, select the font file, in the Destination Folder field select 2. On the Register Others page click Add, select the font file, and in the Regsiter As option select Font. Alternative way for registering font: copy font to and add the following registry value on System Registry: Registry Key: HKEYLOCALMACHINE SOFTWARE Microsoft Windows NT CurrentVersion Fonts Name Value: type the Font Name, e.g.: Calibri (TrueType) Type Value: REGSZ Value Data: type the font filename, e.g.: calibri.ttf How to install a device driver from an INF file? Add the following on the System Commands page: for Windows XP File: rundll32.exe Parameters: setupapi,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132 ' driver.inf' for Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10 File: InfDefaultInstall.exe Parameters: ' driver.inf' Launch: After Installation Wait: Yes where ' driver.inf' is a path to the driver file with extension.INF How to install a screensaver and set it as the default screensaver for the user's computer?.
Add your screensaver file to the project in the 'Installation Files and Folders' section;. Go to the 'Register Other' page and click the 'Add' button;. Specify the screensaver file in the 'File' field and choose 'Screensaver' in the 'Register As' field; How to install Windows Service?
How to run an SQL Server 2005 script? How to ask the user for Serial Number during installation and then write it to Registry? To ask the user for serial number (S/N), go to Interface Main and select User Information, then go to the User Information tab and select the Serial Number option. Add serial numbers to the list (one s/n per line). To write a provided serial number by user to Registry, go to System Registry and add the following: Registry Key: HKEYCURRENTUSER Software Name Value: Serial Type Value: REGSZ Value Data: To save other information provided by user (user name, company, custom value), use the variables that listed. How to get a directory path from Registry and use it in the installation?
To read a path from Registry go to System Variables and add the following: Variable Name: Registry Key: HKEYCURRENTUSER Software Microsoft Windows CurrentVersion Explorer Shell Folders Value Name: My Video Value Type: REGSZ Default Value: Now you can use this variable anywhere in the setup, e.g. For a file's destination. How to change Text in Setup Program?. Go to the Interface Languages tab;.
Select the language to modify;. From the context menu, select Edit;. After modifying, save the file.
How to change Font in Setup Program? By default, Actual Installer uses the Tahoma font (with DEFAULTCHARSET) in the setup program.
To use other, add a font file (TTF format only) in the folder on the Files and Folders page. To change font size and charset, add in this folder file 'font.ini' with the following settings: Font TextSize= the font size of the main text (by default = 8) HeaderSize= the font size of the header text (by default = 10) Charset= the font charset (by default = 1, Central European = 238) How to create a new setup language file?. Open the Language folder in the Actual Installer directory (by default: 'C: Program Files (x86) Actual Installer Language');. Make a copy of the English.lng file;. Open the new lng file and translate it;.
Save the file;. Run Actual Installer. The new language file will be automatically added to the setup languages list. How to create a custom Wizard interface? If you want to create a custom setup Wizard interface, like, make the following:. Open the Bitmaps Wizard folder in the Actual Installer directory (by default: 'C: Program Files (x86) Actual Installer Bitmaps Wizard');. Open any BMP file from this folder in your image editor (e.g.
Mspaint);. Make necessary changes and save new bitmap in any folder;. In your Actual Installer project, go to Interface Graphics and specify the new BMP file.